Jonathan and Luke discuss DHH’s recent comments about Matt and their own experiences with gaslighting. They also re-explore their consternation with Matt’s “inclusivity” in his decision making. Luke talks about his work on the recently renamed Plugins Team and Jonathan expresses his discomfort with the lack of clear commercial incentives.

John Gruber’s Dithering podcast with Ben Thompson was the original inspiration for Crossword’s 15-minute format. Five years later, John joins Luke and Jonathan for a wide-ranging conversation covering open versus closed platforms, the history and impact of Markdown, and a missed opportunity in WordPress. Luke goes on about the good old days, Jonathan starts thinking about a rival platform, and John makes a prediction for the ten-year follow-up episode.

Luke and Jonathan talk through Nilay Patel’s recent interview with Matt on Decoder. Luke shares the “formula” he observed in Matt’s responses and Jonathan pushes back on Luke’s assumptions about the “we” in community. They discuss a premium plugin directory, low ticket sales for WordCamp US, and Jonathan attempts a cricket reference.

Jonathan and Luke catch up with Lesley Sim to explore her experience creating products in the WordPress ecosystem, starting with Newsletter Glue, and now EventKoi. They discuss her and Ahmed’s approach to building EventKoi as an ecosystem plugin and their thinking about early decisions. Luke reflects on what he found inspiring about their approach to design and Jonathan asks questions about their plans for growing the EventKoi ecosystem. Ultimate Frisbee is also discussed.

Jonathan and Luke discuss Five for the Future in context of a recent chat at WordCamp Europe. Luke shares a refreshingly optimistic take on what the program is and Jonathan shares a surprisingly cynical take on behind-the-scenes motivations. They discuss contribution incentives and the ways that counting to 5% (or any target) can backfire.

Zach Stepek welcomes Luke and Jonathan as guests to do a deep dive into the world of Woo. They discuss the history of WooCommerce and the tension between open-source ideals and monetization. Zach shares highlights from his new role at BigScoots and his perspective from contributing to the hosting team. They debate the current state of WordPress, dark patterns, and what the future might hold for WooCommerce. Oh, and an attempt is made at a cricket reference.

Luke waxes poetic about WordCamp Brisbane and Jonathan ruminates on the value of continuity in the WordPress community. They discuss Automattic’s recent acquisition of Clay and then Luke puts Jonathan on the spot with the WPCC.

Federated and Independent – that’s the plan. After a brief catchup on Apple news, Jonathan and Luke discuss the FAIR initiative, its implications for the plugin directory, and how hosts might contribute to its success.

Luke and Jonathan discuss Samuel Sidler’s recent coverage of BlackRock’s devaluation of their Automattic investment. Luke gripes about AI art styles, zones out once as Jonathan talks about financial incentives, and attempts a joke about Trac. They wrap up by discussing Five for the Future and Jonathan shares his usual offering of optimism for what might come about at WordCamp Europe.

Luke and Jonathan catch up with a long-time friend and former colleague Weston Ruter to reminisce about their agency days before talking through Weston’s ten-year tenure as a Core Committer and the legacy of his work on the Customizer. From there, they cover the early days of the WordPress Core Performance Team and Weston’s time at Google, culminating in his contributions to the Optimization Detective project. They also discuss AI—how could they not? Weston’s development practices come up too, along with their mostly shared optimism about the future of the Open Web.

Luke doesn’t think there’s much to talk about regarding the new AI team, but Jonathan thinks otherwise. They discuss the team, the potential impact, and Luke’s theory about the actual value of AI in WordPress. They also talk about trust, safety, and emojis.

Luke and Jonathan explore Open Web idealism through the lens of their WordCamp experiences. Luke shares his reservations about Basel and they talk through their hopes (and concerns) for WordCamp US. Also, is WordCamp Brisbane really the best WordCamp?

Luke expresses his frustration for AI generated email replies to human reviews of AI generated plugins. We talk through the last episode’s description evolution—first with AI, now without—and unpack what happens in a world where appreciation seems to be going extinct, right alongside Luke’s sanity.

We’re back with a new season, new website (not on WordPress?!), and two new sponsors. We catch up on news from over the break, including WordPress 6.8, Gravatar, and the Jubilee. Jonathan feels some nerves and Luke complains about AI.

This season finale is the first episode of Crossword to be recorded in person. Jonathan and Luke are recording from CloudFest in Germany. They discuss the highlights of the conference itself, including how Luke jumped up on stage unannounced, meeting Mary Hubbard, and what is coming next.

Matt Mullenweg’s latest actions have Jonathan confused. They discuss Matt’s proposals to slow down releases, his ominous warnings about the future of WordPress, and the unsettling disconnect between his words and actions. Is this a calculated tactic, or a sign of deeper trouble?

Jonathan and Luke celebrate the 100th episode of Crossword! Join them as they reminisce about the past five years, revisit some of their favorite moments and biggest disagreements, and reflect on how much has changed in the WordPress world – and in their own lives.

Luke and Jonathan discuss the latest news from WordCamp Asia, particularly the absence of any significant controversy at the event. They also talk about the importance of community contributions, the need for clear guidelines for sponsorships and explain what hard yakka means for anyone not from Australia.

In this episode Luke and Jonathan talk about the intersection of politics and WordPress including the recent dismantling of 18F. They also discuss the WordPress Sentiment Analysis Report and the WordPress alternatives that they have been dabbling with.

In the wake of the current uncertainty in the WordPress community, the repository has become a valuable source of objective reporting that is not found elsewhere. Jonathan and Luke discuss the importance of independent journalism, the challenges of covering a complex and emotionally charged conflict, and the vital role the repository plays in holding powerful figures accountable.

The WordPress plugin repository is seeing an influx of AI-generated plugins, and Luke is on the front lines. He and Jonathan discuss the challenges of reviewing AI-generated code, and the potential implications for the future of the plugin repo. Is this a threat to the ecosystem, or a sign of exciting new possibilities?

Jonathan seeks WordPress therapy from Luke, grappling with a growing sense of unease about the state of the project. They discuss the challenges of navigating a rapidly changing landscape, the importance of finding opportunities amidst the chaos, and the need for honest conversations about the future of WordPress.

From Post Status’s non-profit transformation to the emergence of the WPCC, the foundations of the WordPress ecosystem are shifting. Maybe. Jonathan and Luke discuss the potential for positive change, or further fragmentation.

Luke asks Jonathan if he has started investing time in other platforms and technologies in light of recent events. Jonathan shares his evolving perspective on WordPress and the open web. They also grapple with quantifying the real-world impact of this series of events.

Automatic is reducing its contributions to WordPress core, and Luke suspects it’s a strategic move by Matt to exert control. Jonathan explores alternative interpretations, but both agree that this action carries significant risks for the future of the project.

Crossword returns for Season 8. Jonathan and Luke catch up after the holiday break, review the news, and decide not to talk about cricket. Is the WordPress community finally getting back to business, or are there more surprises in store?

Luke expresses fear of being “canceled” from the WordPress community for criticizing Matt Mullenweg. Jonathan questions the likelihood of such retribution, but Luke points to the banning of Ryan McCue and others as evidence of Matt’s willingness to silence dissent. Is there a price to pay for speaking truth to power in the WordPress world?

What does a healthy future look like for WordPress? Luke shares three key takeaways from a WordCamp Sydney hallway track: the importance of centralization, the need for better governance, and the potential benefits of commercializing WordPress.org. Do Jonathan and the wider community agree?

Is the WordPress drama finally winding down? Jonathan senses a de-escalation, but Luke points out there are still some unsettling loose ends. They discuss new data on WordPress growth, the departure of more plugins from WordPress.org, and the lingering questions about the future of the project.

Matt Mullenweg’s actions have sparked an identity crisis within the WordPress community. Luke and Jonathan grapple with the realization that their sense of belonging and purpose is intertwined with a project that might be slipping away. Can they find a way to reconcile their personal investments with the unsettling reality of WordPress today?